Replies to "Liberty and Justice for All"

Reply #1

the god issue.... well yeah that was our "founding fathers" when they drafted it. but America has always been open and free to choose your religion.... "one nation under god" is basically saying one nation under and supported by our beliefs and choices "freedom from oppression and (I think) religious scrutiny (or persecution?)"... but yeah every form of religion has some kind of god or gods, the constitution just didn't specify or amend it :)

this is America.

hell we let Nazi's and the Klan run a muck... we tolerate Baptist screaming on corners with a bibles preaching at traffic lights... ok... doesn't hurt or scare me.. they have the right to do that. (but I do wonder about the 700club's intentions, could be another Waco there. lol)

be it black, white, red, brown, yellow, etc.... we are all Americans.

the photo thing.... hmm. thought it was a form of a picture id? sooo we (police, fed's, retailers asking for check cashing id, etc...) kinda have to see her face right? then let her take the picture and hide the id till it's required... (don't most of us do that anyway?) and besides if she's a immigrant didn't she have to procure a picture for the visa's? like duh....

lol

so she shouldn't HAVE an issue, right? if she didn't do a photo (the 3 required) for INS, then how did she get here? if it's a religion thing then see the above paragraph, (I barely remember the whole story from the news, sorry.)

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Reply #2

Date: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:49 PM
From: John Benavides (johnb@quadvergent.com)

Constructive criticism: You analyzed the whole God deal but I think you need to revisit it. My opinion was that this guy was pissed off on how the religious beliefs, that America was founded on, got all washed out and became minority and somehow has progressed further into not being allowed to be practiced in public. Anything to do with Christianity has been washed out of schools, network television, media, advertisement..you name it. Yet you can go to other countries and be witness to constant routine worship in public places. Matter of fact they stop whatever they are doing to make sure they worship. These same people can come into America and force you to not worship in public. Isn't that what this guy was pissed about? I think you made some good rebuttal but you didn't go the distance and somehow you lost this guys passions of what he was trying to express. It's a touchy subject and as in many places of the world, religion and patriotism often are one in the same with most people who truly have it. I am inspired to become more active in my faith from the things I have read. It seems to be an effective expression this guy has made. This guy merely points out how this country was founded on ideas and beliefs of Christianity and much of our countries history is branded with it. He reinforces that we ought to be respecting it as much, if not more as it has significant meaning to the birth of our nation, as any other wordly belief or religion. My 2 pieces of copper, John

Guest author's reply!

       The problem with disagreeing with someone is everyone assumes that you must agree with the opposition. This is a bad assumption. I do not believe in all the protest against religion being practiced wherever and whenever you want. And while I know the webmaster here would disagree with me, I don’t think it’s a big deal have god mentioned in the pledge and such. I did not down the writer of that writing for his religious beliefs but for his belief that if you are not Christian you have no place in America. And more so, he was NOT just talking religion, as you are, but anything that HE feels is American, or part of our “culture.”

       The whole point of my rant was that there is NO set definition of American Culture. While there was a similarity to the original founders of this country, it was mostly because they all came from similar areas and backgrounds and therefore WOULD have a similar religion and culture beliefs. As our country grew, we evolved and grew, taking in more backgrounds, more beliefs, sharing with each other. There is no one set culture in our country, and I believe THAT is what defines us.

       And it is with that that I say, the guy is an idiot for thinking that if you don’t like something, shut up and get out. Thinking that way, believing that only his opinion and beliefs and others like him, are the only ones that count is what destroys what this country is based on. “That all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” If as a fellow countryman he is unwilling to give these rights to others, as he expects them for himself, then it doesn’t matter how passionate he is because HE, along with you, are missing the whole point of being an American.

Reply #3

I couldn't even read all of this one...and all I have to say is : Blah, Blah, Blah!

(the above is protected by the first amendment, isn't it??? or are the brown shirts going to come and take me away?????)

Reply #4

From: Yuck Fou (theecleaner@hotmail.com)
Date: Thursday, January 22, 2004 12:18 PM

I think you all got off kilter somewhere. Any body who thinks America doesn't have standards is quite mistaken. Until manufacturing was outsourced to foreign markets you would buy tools using English standards. When you opened a business (up until recently) you did not need an interpreter. Everyone spoke English. This nation was founded by many common people and a few uncommon. Say anything you like, there may have been different religions but it was all the same god. This is what we call a foundation; it was well established to our children and their children before being "washed out". It didn't make it the religion of choice it just made it a norm. Now, study your sociology people because here is where it gets good. Our government was founded by God fearing men who made certain that their was presence of faith in God is found in our declarations and our laws. Say what you will be it is present and protects our beliefs and also the faith and beliefs. Our founding fathers were smart enough to recognize that they were not the all knowing and others would come with different ideology and faith. If you paid attention in social studies you would have learned the most valuable lesson: CONFORM TO THE NORM. You can't possibly instill your beliefs and ideas into a community/civilization or organization until you conform to the rules and standards already in place. Someone coming to this country has to look around and say: What language do they speak? It's English and I better learn it if I want to be part of the community to the best of my ability. I can struggle if I choose not to learn it, repeat, and struggle.

What are the laws that I am not to break? I better learn them as I can not pursue a good life in the penal institutes.

What beliefs do they have here? I better learn them, though I need not believe in them, more so interested in not offending the people I have to live with and I hope they can appreciate my beliefs as well but why would they if I don't acknowledge and respect theirs.

Pretty simple, the guy who ranted first had some good points....well founded and they are factual. Do we all need to think like him? Certainly not but we sure can sympathize with him and move on.

Did the guy tearing up this article do well? No, missed everything entirely and focused on things with a hidden agenda. Psychology may uncover something here. Did the guy defending the reasoning behind the first guys rant get it? Think so, but somebody washed all his ranting out too.

What does all this mean? One thing and one thing only: Conform to the norm! You can kid yourself all day long but there is always a norm, admitted or not. One must figure it out and respect it before changing what it is or what it can become.

Sorry for any typos and such.

Regards,
Gregg

(son of two immigrants, English is my second language quickly made it my 1st, God bless America! or Alah, Buddah, whatever your belief is)

Reply #5

From: "daphne" (expensivewino13@yahoo.com)
Date: Saturday, June 19, 2004 6:17 AM

Man, I just can't keep my mouth shut on this one.

If you don't want to take off your veil, then take the bus.

If you are hampered by your religious beliefs in the Florida DMV, it's not that you are being persecuted, it's that you can't successfully fill the requirements to obtain a driver's license. That's it.

I hope I don't sound intolerant, I'm not. I don't eat animals, but I have friends who do. I like Jesus, but not only do I have atheist friends, I also think Buddha kicks ass. Whatever. Do your own thing and respect other people. But, dammit, if you are hampered by your religion, I don't think you get to have a driver's license. I don't think this was about religion, it was about laws, and frankly, I think she shouldn't have been able to get the license.

I will just say this. I see about three to four Muslem women every week in Washington, here, driving mini vans with their faces bare. I don't know the religious differences with the face being covered. I do know that it's funny that someone with a possible Taliban related religion gets to drive if she is a woman. I thought they couldn't even be out without a man. No one addressed that point. It sounds hypocritical to me. It's like, yeah, Serena Williams is a Jehovah's Witness, but she posed in the SI swimsuit issue looking like she wanted to bang bang bang. Uh, yeah.

And that guy who wrote the letter sounded like a crusty American fart. I could see him hating "dem foreigners", even though they could be American citizens. How's that for intellectual terminology?

Haha.